Way back in 2020 we aired a roundtable discussion between Ynez Hicks, James Seddon, and Paul Krueger, three of our staff who also claim the distinction of being veterans. It was such a great discussion that we decided to bring it back to the air for you!
Listen now: Veterans Roundtable by The Current/ Listen Online for free on SoundCloud, 2022, The Current, UC San Diego.
###
Miguel Rodriguez: You are listening to The Current podcast, the official podcast of UC San Diego’s IT Services Department. I’m your host, Miguel Rodriguez.
Today is Tuesday, November 10th. Coming up, we’ve got a very moving insightful and poignant discussion with a panel of IT services military veterans. The Veterans Day holiday is this week. And of course, the 11th of November is a date of great historical importance. They call it Armistice Day in most parts of Europe to commemorate the end of World War One Way back in 1918. Back here stateside, we started observing November 11th in 1919, to commemorate the end of the war to end all wars. It became a national holiday in 1938. And in 1954, [inaudible] officially changed the name from Armistice Day to Veterans Day. So what’s it like to be a veteran working at IT services? Let’s find out from Ynez Hicks, Paul Krueger, and James Seddon.
Mark Hersberger:
This is Mark Hersberger, Communications Manager for the department. Today’s episode, we will celebrate Veterans Day with a few IT services veterans, and I will welcome them to introduce themselves. We can go in reverse alphabetical order by first name, which leads us to ladies first.
Ynez Hicks:
Thank you. My name is Ynez Hicks, I’m the Installation and Repair team supervisor. I’ve been at the university for 30 years, and I served eight years in the US Army as a Flight Operations Coordinator.
Mark Hersberger:
Cool. James.
James Seddon:
I’m James Seddon. I’m the Associate Director of data and voice networking on campus. I’ve been with the University for 15 years. I’m a Navy veteran, I did six years active duty Navy, and then 15 years in the reserves, doing all kinds of strange things. I was a Surface Warfare Officer in a couple of ships, Training Command, and I was IT in the Navy for a little bit and spent a lot of times as staff officer in the Navy did various stash. So that’s me.
Mark Hersberger:
Paul.
Paul Krueger:
I’m Paul Kruger. I’m a Project Operations Analyst for the PPMO. And I did five years in the Navy, and I had a… I was Master-at-Arms, was my rate. But when I was in Afghanistan, I actually was working on a Joint Forces team with the Army as Assistant Operations Officer. So a lot of different non-Navy experience that I had in the Navy.
Mark Hersberger:
Thank you all for your service, first of all, and thank you for joining us for this podcast. And we’ll note that each of the guests have written some brief essays that we’ve posted on The Current and those essays focus on some of the lessons learned from their military experience that they apply to their civilian professional endeavors. So please read those. We’re going to talk a bit today just about their veteran experience and what that’s like. So why don’t we start off for each person briefly, what was your pathway to the Army and Navy respectively?
James Seddon:
Well, I guess I can go first. So joining the Navy, to me checked a lot of boxes that I had going on at the time. So I grew up in this tiny little town. And I really wanted to get out of that tiny little town, so that was one box. I wanted to go to college and I had expensive college tastes, but my family’s budget was not expensive college budget. So getting the Navy to pay for my college was another box of check. I was all excited about flying jets. And that was going to check another box although once I got in the Navy I changed my mind about that. So for me getting in the Navy was something that achieved lots of my goals all at once. Got me out of my little town, paid for my college, and embarked me on an adventure that I wanted to go on. So that’s basically how I started.
Mark Hersberger:
Great.
Paul Krueger:
My pathway to the Navy was actually, I guess somewhat similar to James but I wasn’t in a small town. I’m actually from Orange County right up the road. But I did want to have college paid for and I did want to have adventure. Of course, I wanted to be a Navy SEAL because like many veterans my age, 911 was a pretty big influence in one to join the military. But I thought I did my little research, looked into the Army, Marine Corps, things like that. But I decided I wanted to try out for Navy SEALs. And, alas, when I got in, I could not swim fast enough. It turns out it’s really hard training.
James Seddon:
Who knew?
Paul Krueger:
I did end up doing five years as a Master-at-Arms and did end up deploying to a war zone. So most of my goals were met.
Mark Hersberger:
You achieved adventure anyway.
Paul Krueger:
Exactly. Just not with the trident. But now I’m at UCSD. So there’s tridents everywhere. Just kidding.
Ynez Hicks:
That’s your happy ending. Well, I’ve shared my story with a couple people, and it’s totally separate. I never planned to go to the military, as far as my military dreams went, it was just sing it along with the commercials that would come on, the different themes. I had a friend in high school who said we’d graduated from high school, we were working at an insurance company, we have really great jobs for people our age, kids our age. And she said, “Hey, let’s join the army.” I’m like, “Okay.” She’s like, “Well, no, no, let’s join the army, we could do the buddy plan.” And I was like, “Oh okay.” So we’ll still be working, we’ll be able to go to school and work at the same time. We don’t have to give up one for the other. So sure let’s go.
Only I got recruited came pick me up, I went through the process, and raised my hand and everything. And then I spoke to her a couple days, and she changed her mind. And I’m committed and stuck. So that was my… I never envisioned going into the military, but once I made the commitment, I followed through with it. And I got so much more. I think since I went in, I didn’t have any expectations, other than to just survive. I had a wonderful time, I learned a lot, I got a chance to see and do things I never would have done. And for me, I think it was just a truly wonderful experience.
Mark Hersberger:
Yeah, let’s follow that up for each of you. I wanted to ask during your service, what were some of the most rewarding aspects?
Ynez Hicks:
For me? I enjoyed traveling to different countries. I enjoyed while being in Army Aviation, we flew to just about everywhere we went. So I got a chance to do a lot of traveling. I love learning new languages. So I got a chance to learn. Not an expert at any of them, but I can communicate in several different languages. And that was something that I really enjoyed.
Mark Hersberger:
Yeah. Paul.
Paul Krueger:
Well, I like to travel now, I’d never traveled before I joined the Navy. And then, of course, I always hear stories about people in the Navy. Oh, yeah, we went to Italy. And we went to Greece. And we went to Australia. And we went to Japan. And of course, the only countries I go to were Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kuwait. So that wasn’t definitely, that wasn’t fun. But I will say that, one of the more rewarding aspects was following in my grandfather’s footsteps in a way, he was a pilot in World War Two. But it was a situation where, he heard the call of his country, and he joined up and did what he wanted to do.
And even though I wasn’t a pilot, I joined up and tried to do what I wanted to do. But it was one of those things where me and my grandfather, the only two veterans in our family, so it’s just following in his footsteps. It was rewarding when I was able to pay for my college with the GI Bill. And I think also just, I think the biggest part is just doing my part like my grandfather did in World War Two. It’s just, not everybody’s going to be out there to fight the war. And some of us just got to do our part. And that’s what I felt like I did.
Mark Hersberger:
James.
James Seddon:
Yeah. So I think some of the most rewarding parts for me were getting to see things in places all over the world. I definitely got a little bit of the join the Navy see the world part. I’ve been lots of places, even though I didn’t have… I’m not as salty as many retired sailors after 21 years. But even so I did get sent to lots of places and saw all kinds of things, lots of parts of nature and parts of the world and different cultures and seeing how different people live. I think that has all really enriched me as a person to see all of that.
And I think when I felt most rewarded was when I would stop and realize how much responsibility the Navy has given me at some point. Early in my career on my first ship, I had lots of times where I had that sense where I’d be on the Bridge Watch. And two-thirds or three-quarters of the 350 person crew are all asleep. And it’s me and my team up on the Bridge, and they are all trusting their lives with me and my team up on the Bridge. And it was always very rewarding to me that responsibility that you get trained to handle and you’re supported to handle it, and then you’re trusted with it. And I always found that rewarding. So I guess those were the big ones for me.
Mark Hersberger:
Okay, and what were some of the most challenging aspects of your service time? Want to start us off Paul?
Paul Krueger:
Well, I was never really very disciplined, I was always a smart kid, but I just never had the discipline to do my homework or finish my assignments, or just clean my room, things like that. I mean, I had great parents don’t get me wrong, but they just didn’t have the most discipline in the world. But joining the military really instilled that sense of just getting things done. And once they’re done, you feel better about it. So that actually helped. Once I got, I mean, I barely graduated high school. But then, once I got out and went to San Diego State, I was on the Dean’s list every semester.
So it was just that little bit of taking everything seriously, getting work done, get it done as quickly as you can, staying organized. That was a big challenge for me at first, but when I got it, I got it. Now it’s a permanent part of my life. Also, as far as challenging, I think the military itself I was, I don’t know why, but naturally good at it. And then once I got out of the military, reverting to civilian life was very challenging.
Mark Hersberger:
And Ynez. Challenges?
Ynez Hicks:
My challenge in the military was, when, at the time I went in, there were… Well I don’t want to say at the time, but I had the pleasure of being stationed with a lot of other soldiers who didn’t like women in the military. And so, just they had never had a problem expressing that to you, they made it a point to express that to you on a regular basis. I’m a naturally competitive person, so I think that experience, even though it was a challenge, it was a plus, because it made me work harder to show them that not only can I meet you where you’re at, I made a point to exceed them, just so that I would have that satisfaction of saying, “Okay, well, what else do you have?” So that was one of my biggest challenges in the military.
James Seddon:
I think Ynez is making a really great point. And I think it’s obvious that, for example, me that’s just the challenge I did not face in the military obviously. And it’s very easy for me to take it for granted. And so I think the point Ynez is making is a very important one. And I just want to glom on to it a little bit to say that for many women that phenomenon continues after they’re out of the military and are a veteran, where society has trouble seeing them as veterans.
And I’m not speaking for Ynez here. But I have many women, veteran friends who may have a Navy sticker on their car or service sticker on their car. And when they get out, somebody will walk up and say, “Oh, is your husband in the military?” Or is your brother or your father? The furthest thing from their mind is that the woman in front of them is the veteran that’s being referenced by something they’re wearing or something they have in their car, which is no good. And I’m hoping that that is changing. But I’m not sure it is. Anyway, I think Ynez makes a great point. And the idea, I think women veterans also face similar challenges to be considered and viewed as bona fide veterans, at least some women do.
Paul Krueger:
I’d like to add to that as well. I just want to point out that the first time we ever got into combat in [inaudible], we had our female soldiers and sailors that were returning fired like champs. Meanwhile, we had a couple of male soldiers literally in tears because they were panicking. So whenever somebody says women can’t be in the infantry, I sit there and think about the two women that were returning fire while the two men were crying in the front of vehicle.
James Seddon:
Yeah, in fact, I want to keep going on this, Ynez is probably going to regret bringing this up. But yeah.
Ynez Hicks:
No.
Paul Krueger:
Definitely have to work harder and when it hits the fan, they’re the ones returning fire.
James Seddon:
I benefit a little bit Ynez, I joined the Navy at a time and was assigning to units that I was never assigned to a unit that did not have women in, right? Which is partly why I think it’s nuts that women in the military and women after they leave the military, veterans aren’t treated the same, because there was not a single place that I went with the Navy that there were not women right next to me, even in all those dangerous places, right? And as Paul points out, the idea that they… I mean, it’s just laughable, right? And as Paul points out here, women are in combat and have been in combat for a really long time. And so, whenever Congress opens up a debate about, “whether women should serve in combat” my eyes roll out the back of my head, because they’re already in combat. They’re already serving well in combat. That’s a big deal to me. Sorry.
Ynez Hicks:
Well, no I’m happy that we’re having this conversation, because I’ve experienced both of what you were saying James, my husband is in the military, not in the military. He was in the army also, and will go places. And they’ll see him and say, “Oh, thank you for your service.” And my husband has to say, “She served also.” And I told him, I don’t even have the time, if I don’t wear a hat, “This is Army veteran.” They just always assume and one time we were, I want to say Veterans Day last year, we were in Vegas. And this lady said, “Oh, they made a hat for your husband in your size.” I wanted to respond, but I didn’t. I just smiled.
And to what you said also Paul, about combat, I had a drill sergeant, Drill Sergeant Cruz, I will never forget him, because the whole time we’re competing against other platoons, all male platoons. He told us one time he said, “Look, you have to be better, you have to work harder.” He said, “But I would rather have a female beside me in the foxhole.” He said, “Not taking anything away from my male soldiers. But women are thinkers. While men are prone to react. A man will take off and run while a woman would sit and calculate.” And to other female veterans, it’s like, okay, so somebody does actually appreciate me being here and what I have to contribute to this team.
Mark Hersberger:
Ynez when you first went into the army, were you aware of the gender imbalance or the struggles you would face? And then how did you come to really maybe realize it head on? And what was that adjustment like for you?
Ynez Hicks:
No, I didn’t, because joining the army was never in my future forecast. So I had no expectations. And then I grew up in a very strict environment. So for me the first thing that when I encountered that kind of negative and I’m like, Oh, well, I’ll show you, is usually my take when I encounter stuff like that, but I don’t think if that was my goal, was to join the military, it wouldn’t have deterred me. It wouldn’t have deterred me at all.
James Seddon:
I was just going to say the last little female veteran story that I’ll tell is in one of my other veterans circles, I’m acquaintances with a woman who is a veteran with some service connected disabilities and she has a service dog, is really wonderful dog by the way. Anyway, she has her service dog, and her service dog wears a vest that identifies her as a service dog and has some service stickers on it. And people are interested in her service dog. By the way, if you’re listening to this and you don’t know and you see a veteran service dog, it’s best not to pay any attention to it at all. If you really want to say hello you can ask the veteran if it’s okay if you say hello, it often is not. The service dog is often working and not socializing.
But anyway, aside from that, this veteran friend of mine, will walk up see the patches on her service dogs vest and ask her if her dog is a veteran. If her dog was some service dog in the military, a bomb sniffing dog or something. And that the dog is now retired and she is taking care of this veteran dog. She gets that a lot. It is just nuts. It just again, the last thing that seems to be in some people’s minds is the woman standing in front of them could be a veteran.
Mark Hersberger:
And how have each of you maybe applied these lessons learned about, the role of women in society and professions? Have you applied it to civilian life or your professional career?
Paul Krueger:
I think I’m lucky because like James said, in the Navy, working with women is commonplace. I didn’t realize how segregated the Marine Corps in the army were until I started working with them. But I think it’s a good thing. I even had a female commanding officer at one point, and it’s just I’ve always had this idea of not only are women doing the same thing as we are, but they’re even in command in a lot of cases. So it blows my mind when I hear cases about women in the civilian world being talked down to by male executives, or male bosses or something like that, or women not making the same amount of money as men, because all that stuff that you hear about, frankly it’s just misogynistic, and I’m trying to figure it out.
So I think the fact that I’ve never really experienced this male driven military experience, we’ve always been conditioned that women are not only equal, but can also be in command. So I think that, that’s a plus for me, because I have always seen women that way. After the military, I’ve had female bosses and just like, right there in charge. I’ve had female co-workers, they’re probably in most cases better than more organized than I am. So I think it’s interesting, when I hear former Marines or Army, sit there talking about how women can’t do it. I’m sitting there thinking myself, wow, you must have had a completely different military experience than I did.
Mark Hersberger:
For each of you, what was your pathway out of the military? And what was that transition like? Mind to start James?
James Seddon:
Sure. So I like to say I got out of the military several different times. The first time I got out of the military is when I left active duty, and I left active duty primarily because while there were a ton of things that I really enjoyed about the Navy, I realized, by the end of my first commitment that there were life goals I had, that were going to be very difficult to achieve with if I stayed in active duty. I had a serious girlfriend at the time, she’s now my wife, and I wanted to make that transition successful. But in active duty Navy, I was gone all the time, even if I wasn’t deployed, we were doing workups. If we’re actually in port and not doing workups, then I was spending one out of every four nights on the ship on duty. I was just gone all the time. And I knew that I wanted to get married and start a family and then be around for the child.
So I left active duty, primarily for those reasons is that it wasn’t going to allow me to put priority on the non-Navy goals of my life that I wanted to. I joined the reserves, which ended up being a perfect fit, because it allowed me to stay Navy and do Navy things and also simultaneously pursue my non-Navy goals. So that was a good fit for me. Then I left the Navy for good after 15 more years in the reserves. And it’s interesting me, I don’t know if this interesting to anybody else. But it was really interesting to me, because I did enjoy the Navy for so long. I always wondered if I was going to ever be ready to get out, basically.
And I knew that my wife was going to be ready for me to get out. The reserves were still sending me around. And toward the end of my career, I got sent to Afghanistan. And that was a really tough tour for me. And it was a really tough tour of duty for her. And my family and my returning home was tough on both of us. And so I could tell after that deployment, that she was going to be ready for me to get out as soon as I hit the eligible retirement age, or I could retire out of the Navy. I still wasn’t sure I’d be ready. But then when the time came, I was ready. I discovered that I wasn’t having nearly as much fun. I got promoted out all the fun jobs and was not having a whole lot of fun anymore. So I was ready to get out when I retired and I don’t regret that for a second. So that’s my story of my multiple times getting out.
Mark Hersberger:
Almost like Godfather three. They keep pulling you back in.
James Seddon:
Yeah. Right.
Mark Hersberger:
All right. Ynez, what was your pathway out.
Ynez Hicks:
There was a UCSD. At the time, it was UC Medical Center, I would come up here and they had a Life Flight program, where the helicopter would go out, they’ll respond to different traumas and everything else. And that was similar to what I was doing in the military. And so I would network with them. And every time I came home on leave, I would do a little more networking and a little more networking with them. And they told me that a position was going to be coming available that I would definitely be a qualified candidate to apply for that job. Because I was straddling the fence, do I really want to get out of the military, I enjoyed the military. But my whole mindset was, you know what, I’m young, I can go knock out a couple years, I’ll still be young when I get out. So I’ll have plenty of life left.
And I was straddling the fence of staying and going but when I found out that this position was actually coming available, I decided, Okay, well, I’m going to go ahead and end my service. And because I had a job lined up to go to still doing the exact same thing that I love, just in a different aspect, civilian aspect. Unfortunately, in between the time I actually got out and the time I knocked on the door, their services were being transitioned over to a private company. So my transition from military life to civilian life hit a brick road. But fortunately, while I was here, I was at the Med Center, I went over, I said, Well, since I’m here, I applied for a casual one month job. I said, “Okay, I’ll take this job for one month, until I figure out my next plan of attack.” And that one month turned into three different jobs and 30 years later, I’m still here.
Mark Hersberger:
Well, that’s even more Godfather three. All right, Paul, and then your pathway.
Paul Krueger:
Well, actually, I didn’t intend on leaving until I just got the short end of the… I’m trying to not use my Navy language here. But basically…
James Seddon:
Children present, Paul.
Paul Krueger:
Exactly, exactly. Well, after just doing a year in Afghanistan, I was promised to get First Choice orders. If you volunteer to go on deployment, you get First Choice orders, right? So I was actually intending on coming to Coronado to be on a boat team because I was a qualified coxswain at the time. So I could be on a boat team in Coronado, right across the street from BUDs, so I could train up practice my swimming and I had been doing since the first time I failed, I was going to try again and try to be a Navy SEAL again, right? Packed up our stuff headed back to the states from Afghanistan. While we’re in Kuwait, waiting for our next flight out, I get a call from my leading Petty Officer and it says, Oh, yeah, those awesome Coronado boat team orders got canceled. So you’re going to go to Bahrain for three years. And just like do gate guard duty, I’m like, “I’m sorry, what?”
I just spent a year in Afghanistan. I’m a combat veteran with all these new qualifications that I got, and you’re going to put me on gate guard duty in Bahrain for three years. It was at that point when I decided college sounds like a good idea. So I ended up out in San Diego whether or not the Navy helped me or not, so I just decided to get out. And I finished up my five year contract got out, finished up what I needed to do at the community college and then went to San Diego State and I just never looked back. I did try to put in package for Officer Candidate School after I graduated. But that didn’t end up working out. And in retrospect, it’s better, because now I’m home, I’m safe, not moving around and packing up my stuff every other week, even though I have moved a couple times since I got out of the Navy.
But no, I think it’s better now. I think in retrospect, sometimes a lot of the people that I was in with, were all E5’s at the time, and now they’re all like senior chiefs and officers and stuff. And I’m just like, if I would have stayed in I would have been this and this and that. But I don’t regret the decision that I made. Instead of checking IDs in Bahrain for three years, I went to San Diego State and got my degree so it worked out.
Mark Hersberger:
As a veteran for each of you. What does the Veterans Day holiday mean to you?
Paul Krueger:
I personally think that… Well, Memorial Day is in honor of those who died in combat. Armed Forces Day is for those who are currently in the military. Veterans Day is for us, we’re not in the military anymore. So it really bothers me. And this tongue in cheek and semi-serious but it really bothers me when restaurants give free meals to veterans, there’s a bunch of active duty people showing up to get their free meal, I’m like get out of here, man, this isn’t your holiday.
James Seddon:
You’re here.
Paul Krueger:
Go to the chow hall you get free food anyway.
Ynez Hicks:
Daily.
Mark Hersberger:
James, what does it mean to you?
James Seddon:
Yeah, I think Paul makes a good distinction that sometimes lost on some other folks, especially the difference between Memorial Day and Veterans Day. But speaking of Veterans Day, I think Veterans Day is important to celebrate the service of those who have all served in the military. And it’s a good time, one of the features of America and people will argue back and forth about whether or not this is a good feature, is that a tiny percentage of Americans serve in the military. And it is a unique experience serving in the military. And so because such a tiny percentage of the population actually serve in the military, it’s a unique experience that the rest of the population doesn’t experience.
And certainly military is not the only place like that, I mean, first responders also have a unique experience, and doctors do. So military is not unique, but it is one of those things that has… it’s really important to society, it is a unique experience is a challenging experience. It’s the experience that sticks with you for a lifetime. And a lot of veterans are not spotlight grabbers. And I totally get this, I feel a little bit about this, too. I’m hesitant to stand up at the ballpark, when they want the veterans to stand and my son kicks me in the shins till I do.
But a lot of veterans are not interested in advertising that they’re a veteran or drawing attention to themselves. So I think Veterans Day is really important for the country, because it not only reminds the rest of the country about this unique and valuable experience that this group of people have, but I also think it’s important to get veterans to celebrate their own service. And veterans are a diverse group, and they have diverse feelings about their service. But there’s a lot to celebrate about it. And so I think it’s really important for both ends of the equation to have a day where you’re celebrated, I guess that’s my thoughts.
Mark Hersberger:
Ynez, what does Veterans Day mean to you?
Ynez Hicks:
Everything that James said, the only thing I would add to that is that there are veterans who feel forgotten. They feel like their service in whatever capacity is minimized after you get out of the service. So I think it’s important to acknowledge Veterans Day and whatever celebrations or accolades are given out to veterans on those days, because veterans, most people that served in the military are proud people, they don’t walk around with shirts that say, hey, look at me, I served. They’re humble people, for the most part. So I think it’s very important that Veterans Day gets the recognition that it deserves.
Mark Hersberger:
And why don’t we close here, for each of you, what would you like listeners or just anybody out there to know about what veterans space, what that experience is like, and what people can do to help and support veterans. Want to start us off Ynez?
Ynez Hicks:
I would like for people to acknowledge the contributions of veterans. Veterans don’t go into the military because they have no other choice. Veterans don’t go into the military because they failed at everything else. So what I would like for people to do is to recognize that veterans are capable. They’re capable, they’re accomplished. There’s a word I’m looking for that’s escaping me. But Paul, or James will chime in. That’s pretty much what I would like for people to take away from this conversation.
Mark Hersberger:
Okay. Paul.
Paul Krueger:
Every veteran has got their own story. They have their own journey. They have their own challenges. And I know a handful of veterans who work at UCSD who you wouldn’t even know they were a veteran. So they were like Ynez says, they’re humble. And I mean, my best buddy here at UCSD is a veteran, but nobody knows it because he just absolutely doesn’t even want to talk about it. And so, that’s one of the things that a lot of people have to deal with is, some people don’t want to relive those experiences and things like that. Naturally, it took me a while to try to come to terms with being proud to be a veteran, because when I first got out, I was active in student veteran organization at San Diego State, but then after I graduated, and I started to feel a lot of the challenges that a lot of veterans face, had a hard time trying to find a job, I had no financial safety net, I had no, I mean, the health care situation wasn’t as good as I’d hoped it was either.
And a lot of veterans have PTSD, either from combat or from other experiences that they had to go through. And so, I personally, and another thing too is, took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I too had PTSD from combat. And so, it took a long time, it was really difficult, it was honestly really hard for me to just say that right now. But it’s something that some people have to… they have to take their own time to come to terms with those things. A lot of the things that they experience you’ll never forget. One of my best friends in Afghanistan took his own life in 2012, because he couldn’t deal with it.
So it’s not easy for a lot of us. And it’s easy for some, some might have traumatic experiences, and they’re just naturally equipped to deal with it. Some of us aren’t, some of us had more traumatic experiences than others, but even people who had very minor tragic experiences, anything from like, a vehicle like that accident or something like that or lots of female veterans had to suffer PTSD from other situations. But I think it’s important to realize that we all are all dealing with our own things that come with the military, but we aren’t bad people, we aren’t broken people, we are still capable of doing our jobs, we’re still capable of being good people.
And honestly, it’s one of those situations where if you just want to actually sit down and talk to a veteran, and if they’re willing to open up and talk to you about it, it’s just so much better for their experience. If you actually just want to hear about their experience, if they’re willing to talk about it, don’t push them if they don’t want to talk about it. But just being there to talk to someone just makes them feel a lot more comfortable, it gets a lot of pressure off of them. And I think it’s a big thing about saying thank you for your service isn’t what we want, it’s actually getting to know who we are, and you giving us a chance to show what we can do.
So because that’s something that I always had to experience after college, it was a whole bunch of thank you for your service. But no, you can’t have a job. Thank you for your service. But no, you can’t have a loan. Thank you for your service. But no, you can’t live in this apartment complex. So it’s, I don’t want to hear thank you for your service I want to hear, let’s see what you can do, I’m going to give you a chance to show that your experience can be a positive contribution to this organization, or the society or something like that. I’m sorry, I’m getting into real deep stuff here. But it’s pretty important to me. A lot of the challenges that both I’ve gone through and a lot of my friends have gone through, it’s just something that I want to make sure that the public knows about.
Mark Hersberger:
No, but we appreciate the candor. It’s very moving. All right. James, close it down for us.
James Seddon:
Sure. Amen to everything Paul and Ynez said, and I want to applaud Paul for talking about his experience, because it ties into the things I was going to add, which is there tend to be stereotypes about veterans, and there’s a couple. One is the action hero veteran, the movie action hero who is fearless and does epic and wonderful things all the time. And there’s that trope, and then there’s also the broken veteran, danger to himself or herself and others. Constantly wallowing in despair, there’s that trope, and like all tropes, they’re basically wrong. I mean, there are some people that exhibit some of that, of course, but they’re mostly wrong most of the time.
And so, I would ask folks to catch themselves if they begin to think about veterans in those ways. And realize, as Paul says and Ynez, that veterans are complicated folks with all kinds of experiences. So my I guess my challenge to people would be to take it to the next level, right? Thank you for your service is nice. I always try to appreciate that. I always remember that the Vietnam Air vets received a very different sentiment from the society they returned to. And so I never want to take it for granted when somebody says thank you for your service. And I know Paul, you weren’t saying that you would take it for granted. But echoing what Paul says, while I don’t want to take for granted, it can sometimes come across as compulsory or formulaic that people feel like that’s the thing they’re supposed to say.
And so my challenge would be to take it to the next level and get to know a veteran, if you don’t know any. Ask about where their favorite duty station was or get to know a little more about the veterans experience and so take that that one extra step. One step beyond thank you for your service and see how that goes and see what you learn. And for veterans, I think it’s important for us to fight and demonstrate that stereotypes aren’t always true.
So that’s why I think it’s particularly important for veterans who have suffered PTSD, like Paul has said, and like myself, I’ve been treated for PTSD. I think it’s important for us, in spite of the fact that it may be uncomfortable to say that, it’s important for us to say that because I think that every time we do, you may reach somebody who says, I always thought that people with PTSD were XYZ. And yet, Paul is something else. And so I think it’s important that the veterans continue to do that. So anyway, I think society right now is doing a much better job of valuing veterans and they didn’t Vietnam. But I think that there’s still work to be done, especially in regards to fighting some of the stereotypes that exist around veterans.
Mark Hersberger:
There you have it IT services. Some words of advice as you encounter veterans. I want to personally thank you, Ynez, Paul, and James. This has been actually amazing conversation and I appreciate your time.
James Seddon:
Thank you.
Paul Krueger:
Happy to do it.
James Seddon:
Thank you for asking.
Miguel Rodriguez:
What a truly amazing discussion that was. Also I should note that Ynez, Paul, and James have each written essays describing what their military experience taught them about life back in the civilian world. Those are all posted on the homepage of The Current. And to round up the episode I’m inspired to perform a dramatic reading of the lyrics to the …1962 hit, Soldier Boy. Including hitting that high note. On second thought for the sake of your ears and more importantly my own vocal chords I’ll save that for next year. Have a great day and we’ll see you next week. I sure hope you’re enjoying this podcast, remember to let your fellow IT services staff members know that this podcast exists. Get everyone to subscribe on iTunes, …or wherever you can get your podcast. This podcast is a collaborative effort and we want to hear from you if you have any ideas for podcasts or topics send them to me at its-podcast@uscd.edu. That’s it for today. Keeping you out for the next episode of The Current daily.
Listen now: Veterans Roundtable by The Current/ Listen Online for free on SoundCloud, 2022, The Current, UC San Diego.